Forum europäischer Spinnentiere

Bestimmungsfragen (Determination) => Spinnen Europas bestimmen (Determining spiders of Europe) => Thema gestartet von: Johan Verstraeten am 2020-03-25 16:38:23

Titel: spider on broom => Haplodrassus sp.
Beitrag von: Johan Verstraeten am 2020-03-25 16:38:23
I found this spider on broom in dry heathland.
It has a body length of approx. 6-7mm
Location : Maasmechelen, Belgium
Date :25/03/2020

(https://www.mupload.nl/img/nny1bb.jpg)
(https://www.mupload.nl/img/0uir4u8r3uwv.jpg)
(https://www.mupload.nl/img/4zaftrr9n.jpg)

Best regards
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-03-25 16:56:59
Hm, this should be a young Scotophaeus, but what is it doing in this habitat?
Simeon
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Johan Verstraeten am 2020-03-25 17:53:54
it used to be an old sand quarry. There are some rocks on the ground. No houses in the area.
Heathland, pine trees on the borders and small birch.
Some small pools spread in the area.

Satelite photo :
https://waarnemingen.be/observation/187202589/
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-03-25 18:33:28
Pine trees don't sound bad!
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Tobias Bauer am 2020-03-26 09:23:06
To, me, the eyes seem not to fit, the're not round, but shaped like an almond. The light covers a part of the eye field and makes them look smaller, and various Haplodrassus sp. are very common in such habitats. With a certain angle and light, the distance between the PME can also look different (wider). See here in H. moderatus.

https://wiki.arages.de/index.php?title=Haplodrassus_moderatus#/media/File:Haplodrassus_moderatus_female_A5980_PL1432.JPG

Tobias
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-03-26 09:29:58
I am not convinced. It has the characteristic narrow clypeus and small, forwards protruding chelicerae for Scotophaeus (Haplodrassus are pretty robust), the eyes seem round - less separated anteriorly than posteriorly, and the distal segments of legs I seem distinctly thickened (on photos, Haplodrassus seem to have thickened femora only)
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Tobias Bauer am 2020-03-26 09:53:43
Johan, can you attach it in higher resolution? So that we can see the eyes.

Tobias
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-03-26 09:58:38
Perhaps also cropped? Is this the only photo?
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Tobias Bauer am 2020-03-26 15:06:18
Maybe we both are wrong and its Echemus, that would be surprise  :P
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-03-26 15:51:58
This is something I also briefly thought of. As far as I remember (I haven't seen one in a long time), Echemus resembles somatically Scotophaeus, also in terms of eyes. I have an adult and a subadult male somewhere, I could dig them up and at least see if there are any blatant contradictions
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Johan Verstraeten am 2020-03-29 12:14:00
I added 2 photos.
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-03-29 14:02:43
Hm. Odd. It does have closely situated to each other eyes! Like Haplodrassus silvestris, for example. But juvenile Scotophaeus have proportionally larger eyes, on the other hand, as do Echemus...
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Tobias Bauer am 2020-03-29 14:26:22
It does certainly not look like that (narrow prosoma, chelizerae!)

https://wiki.arages.de/index.php?title=Echemus_angustifrons#/media/File:Echemus_angustifrons_prosoma_fem_Arne_Fjellberg.jpg

or that (round eyes clearly separated)

https://wiki.arages.de/images/b/bd/Scotophaeus-blackwalli_Sardinien-IsolaCaprera_14-07_01-female-detail.jpg

So, I think there is little doubt that this is a Haplodrassus, possibly sylvestris. I highly doubt that juvenile spiders change the form of the eyes during development from that shown by Johan to one of the examples above…

Tobias
Titel: Re: spider on broom
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-03-29 16:04:58
I doubt it too - the triangular eyes are well visible on one of the photos