Forum europäischer Spinnentiere

Bestimmungsfragen (Determination) => Spinnen Europas bestimmen (Determining spiders of Europe) => Thema gestartet von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-16 19:27:55

Titel: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-16 19:27:55
Gorgoglione, Province of Matera, Basilicata, Southern Italy.

Date of discovery: November 16, morning.
Habitat: 700 m - in an oak forest, hidden under the lower part of the wooden shutter of a window of an abandoned bungalow.
Size: 8-9mm.

Hi,
I believe this spider is a Scotophaeus.
Can we go further?
Thanks.
Raf

gna.jpg
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Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-16 19:40:27
Certainly Scotophaeus and I would say *not* scutulatus
Simeon
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-16 19:46:50
Do you need some details of the spider (except the epigyne) Simeon?

I have others photos.
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-16 19:58:15
I would like to see the spines on either femur III or IV. It won't suffice for a species ID but will certainly tell if scutulatus or not.
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-16 20:08:44
VoilĂ . I believe it measured just over 10 mm, not 8.

gna2.jpg
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gna3.jpg
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This spider, which I believe belongs to the same species as the other, was in the door jamb of the same bungalow. It measured 7 mm.

gna1.jpg
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Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-16 22:17:58
Could be Scotophaeus blackwalli or related (attention: it doesn't have to be recorded from Italy). Definitely not scutulatus
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-16 22:36:43
attention: it doesn't have to be recorded from Italy

Sorry Simeon but I don't have a good translation of your words. What do you mean?
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Maria Naumova am 2020-11-17 04:55:20
The species may not have been reported from Italy until now. So you should look not only at the  checklist :)
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus?
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-17 11:18:49
Thanks,
now I understand: Scotophaeus sp., perhaps not present in the Checklist of Italian spiders.

Interesting.

Greetings. 
Raf
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-17 20:00:59
Good evening.
After the answers from Maria and Simeone I got curious.

If I could find similar specimens of these spiders (I could try tomorrow, or these days, I know where to look and with any luck ...), would anyone be interested in examining them?
Alives, of course.

In this way let's see which species they belong to.

Greetings from southern Italy.
Raf
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-17 20:41:32
Does this include shipping via mail? Can be done live too
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-17 22:48:00
Does this include shipping via mail?

Obviously.


Can be done live too

I don't understand this sentence.
Humor or badly translated (DeepL)?  ;)
In any case, I mean that I would send the spiders alive and then wait patiently for the answer.

Raf
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-17 23:34:36
This is what I meant too. Please make sure to find a male though, preferably catch several specimens. And make sure you don't catch your scutulatus as well, they are not of interest ;)
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-18 00:24:51
I'm interested in identifying the spiders in the photo.
In the place where I go I know I can only find specimens like these, which do not seem male to me. Aren't they useful? I don't know if there are any males around.

What is my scutulatus, Simeon?  ???
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-18 00:34:53
The specimens on the thread seem to be indeed all females, judging by time of year, likely subadult. A subadult male will have its palpal tarsi visibly swollen (more than 1.5 times the diameter of the patella).

Well, if it is for scutulatus, I have it in my house ;) . No need to catch this common European species, unless you want to send a specimen for verification.
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-18 09:03:44
Ciao Simeon,
let me understand, are you offering your hospitality to my spiders?  ???
Because, in case, I begin to inquire about the cost of the ticket for Bulgaria.  ;)
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-18 11:02:18
Yes, if possible, I would like to accept some Scotophaeus specimens :)
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-11-18 11:42:29
Very well.  :)

In order not to bore the forum users, we update ourselves via PM, or as it suits you.

Raf
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-11-18 11:51:43
Yes, definitely per PM.
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-12-12 12:52:19
So, two specimens kindly send by Raffaele (collected on 19.11) are currently with me - both juvenile females. While somewhat dehydrated, both survived the journey via the post and are currently quite active.
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-12-12 17:00:56
Wow, finally, this was the news I was waiting for.  :D

Do a good job with my young ladies, Simeon, waiting for Prince Charming ...  ;)

Greetings from South Italy.
Raf
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Simeon Indzhov am 2020-12-12 17:08:01
I will try my best! Thanks again!
Titel: Re: Scotophaeus? => Scotophaeus sp.
Beitrag von: Raffaele Falato am 2020-12-12 17:33:34
I'm sure of it, dear Simeon. :)

While somewhat dehydrated, both survived the journey ... and are currently quite active.

But who kills us Italians (humans and animals) ... nobody!  :D