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Projekte (Projects) => Weitere Projekte (more projects) => Entwicklung: Interaktives Bestimmungssystem (Ideas of an interactive determination system) => Thema gestartet von: Martin Lemke am 2012-01-04 12:33:48

Titel: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-01-04 12:33:48
Ich bin dabei zu versuchen, die Epigynen der Linyphiidae des großen Roberts in 15 Grundtypen zu typisieren. Zu diesen Grunddypen sollen später ergänzende Atribute kommen (z. B. Knotenstrukturen, u.s.w.). Das ist möglich, aber die Schwierigkeit besteht darin, die Typisierung so vorzunehmen, dass der Nutzer zu der selben Einschätzung kommt. In Zweifelsfällen kann ausnahmesweise eine Art mal zwei Typen zugeordnet werden.

Und natürlich ist es notwendig, dass das Angebot der Typen übersichtlich bleibt.

Hier die aktuellen Typen:
(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_zentral_geschlossen.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_zweigeteilte_struktur.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_spalt.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_dreiecksöffnung.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_zentrale_öffnung.jpg)
Zentral geschlossenZweigeteilte StrukturSpaltDreiecksöffnungZentrale Öffnung

(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_minimale_basalstruktur.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_y-strunktur.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_geteilte_öffnung.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_strukturierte_öffnung.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_genitaldeckel.jpg)
Minimale basale StrukturY-StrukturGeteilte ÖffnungStrukturierte ÖffnungGenitaldeckel


(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_diskret_überlappend.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_lange_mittelsruktur.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_flankierte_mittelstruktur.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_doppelöffnung.jpg)(http://spinnen-forum.de/key/linyphiidae (präpariert)/weibchen/daten/epigyne_eingelappte_struktur.jpg)
Diskret überlappendLange MittelstrukturFlankierte MittelstrukturDoppelöffnungEingelappte Struktur

Ich versuche das mal. Später hierzu mehr.

Martin
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Kjetil Åkra am 2012-01-18 09:32:11
I found this to be a very useful and interesting morphological division of linyphiid epigyneal types! The main problem, I think, is to ensure that all types are encompassed by your shapes!

Kjetil
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-01-18 10:41:16
This is a first idea, that was engeneered in orientation with Roberts Linyphiidae books.

Another question is, if the user follows the same kind of abstraction like the author. If not, the key is not really usable. But it is an idea an I will continue it when I have more time. It must be tested.

Martin
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Kjetil Åkra am 2012-01-18 12:00:35
One of the things I liked about your scheme is that it seems to include most types in easily defined and understandable shapes.

Kjetil
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Glenn Halvor Morka am 2012-03-07 15:18:45
Hello Martin!

I`ve tryed to test out your idea on an interactive epigyne key.(Html and Java)
It could work, but as you say, it depends on how we all interprete the shapes of an epigyne.
(You have been credited for the ground idea)

The application is only a small testing version, but it could easily be done "bigger" and more advanced if spended more time on.

Se the testing site here: (http://www.edderkopper.net/Forum/smf_1-1-11_install/pages/Identification-tools.html)
(Just press the "Epigyne Key"-button on the site.)
In the epigyne key application, the genus buttons are linked to their sites at Araneae Unibe.
 

-Glenn
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-03-08 00:16:52
Nice work, Glenn. Its beatifull, You like my idea.

But if I test following asking: http://forum.spinnen-forum.de/index.php?topic=10383.0

I would click on line 2 the 2nd or 4th picture, but there is no Walckenaria.

The pictures must be more rudimental kind and as low count as possible. Other criteria may be:

Scapus yes/no
Parmula yes/no
...

and so on.

I hope, you understand what I mean with my worse english. It is late night. May be, I write better tomorrow.

Martin
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: pfeiffer am 2012-03-08 07:50:02
Nice work, Glenn. Its beatifull, You like my idea.

But if I test following asking: http://forum.spinnen-forum.de/index.php?topic=10383.0

Ha, you and I both tried the same specimen. The same thing happened to me, but my second (difficult) guess brought me to W.
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-03-08 09:06:36
A few mounth ago, I see the job with other eyes. I would reduce the correspondig shapes to a litte less special shapes (see picture); so there will be only one picture insted of the yellow, green or red pictures. The questions, e. g. if there is a whole or a closed structure and so on can be asked and answered later. At the end, there are 8 pictures at (in or at here?) the first hirarchical floor.

Martin
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Glenn Halvor Morka am 2012-03-08 10:36:51
Nice work, Glenn. Its beatifull, You like my idea.

But if I test following asking: http://forum.spinnen-forum.de/index.php?topic=10383.0

I would click on line 2 the 2nd or 4th picture, but there is no Walckenaria.

The pictures must be more rudimental kind and as low count as possible. Other criteria may be:

Scapus yes/no
Parmula yes/no
...

and so on.

I hope, you understand what I mean with my worse english. It is late night. May be, I write better tomorrow.

Martin




Thanks for your inspiring feedback on the test-project.



"But if I test following asking: http://forum.spinnen-forum.de/index.php?topic=10383.0

I would click on line 2 the 2nd or 4th picture, but there is no Walckenaria.


-But now there is... :D

I agree with you that Walckenaria should be placed in these two categories, so I added a "button".


To get this key to be more useful, I think we`ll ned a couple of more vievers to put "their" genus choices in
the different categories if they think it is missing there.
Different people se different things, and it would do the application more useful.

The pictures can be changed easily with more "outlined" examples if needed.
My sample application dont have the "scapus no, and yes" since many users have difficulties knowing what a "scapus" is,
or in some samples are very difficult to see. Of course, the application could use these two choises, for more advanced users.

Then I get the idea of making two applications, one for newbies, and another one for experienced users. :)





-Glenn
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Glenn Halvor Morka am 2012-03-08 10:40:04
A few mounth ago, I see the job with other eyes. I would reduce the correspondig shapes to a litte less special shapes (see picture); so there will be only one picture insted of the yellow, green or red pictures. The questions, e. g. if there is a whole or a closed structure and so on can be asked and answered later. At the end, there are 8 pictures at (in or at here?) the first hirarchical floor.

Martin


I understand your simplification of shapes, but I miss the triangleformed one..


-Glenn
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-03-08 12:21:51
I understand your simplification of shapes, but I miss the triangleformed one..

This will be aviable on the sub hirarchy of the middle structure shape:

Martin
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Glenn Halvor Morka am 2012-03-08 12:40:49
I understand your simplification of shapes, but I miss the triangleformed one..

This will be aviable on the sub hirarchy of the middle structure shape:

Martin

Your choise of a sub hiarchy sounds lika good idea. But, there will be a whole lot of drawings to reach over all the shapes totally?


-Glenn
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-03-08 14:08:29
Your choise of a sub hiarchy sounds lika good idea. But, there will be a whole lot of drawings to reach over all the shapes totally?

It is was a first idea, but it makes the soultion probably difficulter than easier. I'll think about. Later more.

Martin
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-07-21 12:09:39
(http://forum.spinnen-forum.de/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9619.0;attach=62574)

ABCD
EFGH

Mal sehen, ob ich die textliche Beschreibung zweisparchig hin bekomme. Ich bitte um Korrektur, wenn ich falsch liege.

A) Central whole or structure, Zentrale Öffnung oder Struktur
B) Splitted whole or structure, Zweigeteilte Öffnung oder Struktur
C )Gapped, Spalt
D) Small structure on base, Minimale basale Struktur
E) Y-formes whole or structure, Y-förmige Öffnung oder Struktur
F) Flanked middle structure, flankierte Mittelstruktur
G) Overlapped, überlappend
H) Sidewise lapped, seitlich eingelappt

Martin
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Annie Antonsen am 2012-12-17 17:00:12
Hello Martin :)

As far as I can see the only one that needs a correction is this:
E: Y-formes whole or structure, Y-förmige Öffnung oder Struktur
 
This should be written like this:

E: Y-formed whole or structure, Y-förmige Öffnung oder Struktur

Sincerely
Annie
Titel: Re: [Linyphiidae] Typisierung von Epigynenstrukturen
Beitrag von: Martin Lemke am 2012-12-18 07:50:06
Hell Annie,

nice to read You.

This project is on stand by. Bur You_re right, the idea shoud not be forgotten.

Martin