Autor Thema: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium erraticum/pennyi  (Gelesen 220 mal)

Raffaele Falato

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Gorgoglione, Province of Matera, Basilicata, Southern Italy.

Discovery date: June 7, 1 pm, hot day.
Habitat: 900 m - in the countryside, in the low vegetation, in the sack built between some blades of grass joined together with silk.
Size: 8 mm.

Ciao allerseits,
can anyone help me determine (if possible from the photos) the specie of this female Cheiracanthium specimen?
Thanks.
Raf

ch1.jpg
*ch1.jpg (34.24 KB . 692x614 - angeschaut 77 Mal)
ch2.jpg
*ch2.jpg (25.22 KB . 481x509 - angeschaut 77 Mal)
ch3.jpg
*ch3.jpg (43.91 KB . 897x509 - angeschaut 81 Mal)
« Letzte Änderung: 2020-09-14 16:37:23 von Katja Duske »

Simeon Indzhov

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium?
« Antwort #1 am: 2020-09-13 13:24:56 »
There are several options here: abbreviatum, pelasgicum, pennatum
Simeon

Raffaele Falato

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium?
« Antwort #2 am: 2020-09-13 13:51:38 »
Hi Simeon,
I don't want to contradict you but I don't notice similarities with the species you indicate.
Abbreviatum is not present in Italy, as far as the other 2 are concerned, my spider is larger (8mm measured), it does not have the herringbone pattern on the opisthosoma and has completely different ventral and sternum section (in my opinion ).
Erraticum?

Pierre Oger

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium?
« Antwort #3 am: 2020-09-13 14:33:10 »
If I should give a name, I would say C. erraticum, mostly resembling to this spider !

Raffaele Falato

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium?
« Antwort #4 am: 2020-09-13 15:30:55 »
Bonjour Pierre,
I'm glad you share my hypothesis.  :)

Raf

Simeon Indzhov

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #5 am: 2020-09-13 19:15:40 »
But of course... I should have noticed this is not a fishbone but a solid stripe...

Tobias Bauer

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #6 am: 2020-09-14 09:45:48 »
Why not pennyi? I can't tell them both apart by the habitus.

Tobias

Pierre Oger

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #7 am: 2020-09-14 13:04:08 »
I think it is also a good proposal but when comparing the species with the photos on my site, C. erraticum is for me the best proposal : drawings on the prosoma, darker colour of the chelicera, light band on the sternum and darker longitudinal band on the abdomen go more in the direction of C. erraticum  ;)

Sylvia Voss

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #8 am: 2020-09-14 14:20:34 »
 :)
I would rather say erraticum. Pennyi does not have this prosoma drawing like erraticum and you can see it quite well in the photos here. But personally I would have filed them under Ch.erraticum vs pennyi, because only the genital examination would provide clarity...
best
Sylvia

Raffaele Falato

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #9 am: 2020-09-14 15:14:57 »
Pennyi does not have this prosoma drawing like erraticum

... as confirmed by the Department of Zoology of the University of Naples (email at 12:30).
Thank you all for the instructive discussion.  :D
Greetings.
Raf

Tobias Bauer

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #10 am: 2020-09-14 15:28:22 »
I'm still not convinced by all these opinions. Nobody ever examined a large number (>40 specimens) of both species and compared them systematically with each other.

Here is an example determined by Aloys Staudt, together with genitalia.

C. pennyi

I see a very similar and clear pattern on the prosoma. This corresponds also to my own experience. I litterally can't tell them apart by the habitus. Old specimens, e.g., also have darker chelicerae.

Tobias

Raffaele Falato

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #11 am: 2020-09-14 15:54:03 »
Well, in front of all of you I just have to shut up and learn.
Nevertheless, I notice an obvious herringbone on the Staudt specimen, and I have not read anywhere that this characteristic is typical of erraticum.
C.pennyi seems to group characteristics of various species (for example, those mentioned by Simeon + erraticum).

Raf

Pierre Oger

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Re: Which Cheiracanthium? => Cheiracanthium cf. erraticum
« Antwort #12 am: 2020-09-14 15:55:35 »
Yes Tobias, seems the determination by Aloys is correct !
So the name of this spider should be C. erraticum/pennyi  :)