Autor Thema: Alopecosa farinosa? => Alopecosa sp.  (Gelesen 218 mal)

Raffaele Falato

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Alopecosa farinosa? => Alopecosa sp.
« am: 2021-01-08 15:48:36 »
Gorgoglione, Province of Matera, Basilicata, Southern Italy.

Discovery date: September 15th, 11:30 am.
Habitat: 800 m - in a meadow (former football field now abandoned) at the edge of an oak forest, between dry grass and some large boulders.
Dimensions: just over 10 mm.

Good morning.

This beautiful female of Alopecosa I would like to assign to the species farinosa, after I have compared the wiki and possible similar species.
After all, pattern, size, habitat and phenology fit together very well.
Did I miss something for a different determination?
Thanks.
Raf

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*af1.jpg (39.42 KB . 715x743 - angeschaut 112 Mal)
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« Letzte Änderung: 2021-01-14 23:43:26 von Raffaele Falato »

Tobias Bauer

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Re: Alopecosa farinosa?
« Antwort #1 am: 2021-01-13 13:43:22 »

Raffaele Falato

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Re: Alopecosa farinosa?
« Antwort #2 am: 2021-01-13 14:10:46 »
Ciao Tobias,
do you mean that my spider is (can be) etrusca, or that there is simply confusion between farinosa and etrusca?
In any case, I downloaded Tongiorgi's work.
I think I'll answer you better in the afternoon.

Greetings.
Raf

Raffaele Falato

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Re: Alopecosa farinosa?
« Antwort #3 am: 2021-01-13 16:27:24 »
I do not know what to say.

 :) The description (and the drawing - page 60, fig. 16a) of etrusca given by Lugetti & Tongiorgi in RICERCHE SUL GENERE ALOPECOSA SIMON
(ARANEAE-LY COSIDAE) 1969 matches almost perfectly with my spider, except for a few small details - I do not see the narrowing of the median band in the posterior part of the prosoma nor the oval shape of the same band in the cephalic area, but I notice very well in my spider the interrupted rings in the ventral part of the femurs described by the Italians, but I don't know if this characteristic is also common to farinosa.
The habitat also fits well.

 :( Against etrusca there is the distribution on Italian soil. On araneae.it I read that etrusca was found only in central Italy and Piedmont (northwestern Italy). But the lack in southern Italy does not worry me too much, as they say: those who don't seek, don't find.
I also have no reason to compare with the size of etrusca, which I do not find anywhere (only prosomial), so I don't know if my spider, if etrusca, is young or female.
Finally, the farinosa specimens in the wiki look too much like my spider, and this is my main source of doubt.

At this point, I am unable to move beyond Alopecosa sp.

Raf

Tobias Bauer

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Re: Alopecosa farinosa?
« Antwort #4 am: 2021-01-13 23:31:34 »
I've never seen etrusca. I just know that with Italian Alopecosa, you need the copulatory organs.

Raffaele Falato

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Re: Alopecosa farinosa?
« Antwort #5 am: 2021-01-14 00:03:00 »
Hi Tobias, I was expecting this answer (thanks, by the way), especially after reading about etrusca, before I was really convinced that the spider was farinosa. The identification stops at Alopecosa sp., apparently.

I wonder, if etrusca was not present in Italy, would my spider be more likely to be farinosa, or are there other species that create confusion with the pattern? The wiki speaks only of barbipes-accentuata, which should not be present in Italy, as similar specie.
Thanks.
Raf

Jonathan Neumann

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Re: Alopecosa farinosa?
« Antwort #6 am: 2021-01-14 10:08:15 »
Hallo Raf,

I dont want to be rude, but this came into my mind:

By now you have asked for so many spider ID that you should have realized that for some groups you cannot tell the species on a juvenile specimen, as you need the fully developed genitalia/copulatory organs as Tobias mentioned. If Simeon can ID Philodromus by young stages its alright, but for me e.g. I can ID Philodromus dispar as a juvenile, the mainpart not at all.

I just wonder why you start to discuss or evaluate arguments when nobody answers (thats a hint that an ID is likely not possible) or if someone says it could be A or B or even sth else (as mediterran fauna is always surprising and some parts ar poorly studied).

even me i had to accept that with my way of observing/studying spiders the ID-methods are limited and if I cannot ID a specimen than I have to live with that.

Sorry I didnt want to be rude, these were just my thoughts.

LG,
Jonathan
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